I'm going to buy one of these (belated Christmas present), but which one?
I already have a Forerunner 305 so know how they work etc but I want something with maps for navigation, anyone got an opinion of which map bundle to go for? I see it's very expensive to add these later, although free alternatives are available.
What does everyone else (Mike) do?
If you want a review of other aspects let me know. But you are welcome to come rounds and have a play. I have both OS and city navigator. I find them both useful.
Cheers Mike that's very useful indeed.
I'm unlikely to use it off-road, when I go mountain biking it's usually at man made trail centres anyway so I'm unlikely to need full OS mapping.
I think the City Navigator option sounds like the best bet for me, especially if you say it does show virtually all the metalled and unmetalled tracks. I was a bit worked it might just have the major roads, i.e. might miss out 'Long Lane' and similar.
Amazon have the Edge 800 Performance bundle with city navigator street maps for europe, for £350 which looks like a good bet so far!
Have you checked PBK? they say the yhave a deal on at the moment.
I have the base level 800, ie without maps. It was a present so I shouldn't complain, but I think it is lacking something without them. You can still plot routes, add route markers and follow the directions, but if the maps add true car sat nav functionality the. You should definitely get them.
I use BikeHile.co.uk to plot routes, then tweak the course points in Garmin Training Centre. Any tips or alternatives Mike?
PBK are £405 at the moment, but they do have a very cheap base model 800 (no maps etc)
I don't like the linear approach to creating a route, ie start to finish, I like to have the whole route like an elastic band that I can pull and insert etc anywhere, so that means very few sites are any good. I use plain old google directions on a plain google map. Then use a bookmarklet (below) to create the TXC/GPX files.
just use this as a bookmark url:
javascript:(function(){var script=document.createElement('script');script.src='URL';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script);})()
replace URL with
But yes bikehike is one of the best sites for mapping routes linearly.
Get some maps for your Garmin Paul!
I use Open Source maps on my 705 with no probnlems.
Right, going for the Amazon one. Found it a few pounds cheaper at a random site I've never heard of but......
Thanks for the advice Mike and Paul, hopefully it'll be here in time for the weekend :-)
Now doing some quality needing and saving various routes into garmin format :-)
All TCX are not the same. Ideally you need the course points. Different sources either create these or don't
I have also found that some alleged GPX files dont have any data in them either, but you can upload them to BikeHike and export them as tcx files, after adding the course points as Mike says.
If you use google, you get the coursepoints for free :-)
I must give that a try then!
Hmmm, routes does seem a bit complicated, there's .gpx files and .fit files. Think I'll go for an experiment when it arrives and still take a map for the first few outings!
A .fit file is a garmins compression format like .zip A .tcx file is converted into a .fit file on the device. Really you don't need to worry about .fit files, just create a .tcx file and drop it in the 'new files' folder
.gpx is of no use in the garmin world
Please play with routes in google maps folks. You can EASILY create a tcx from that afterwards.
This was a doddle
Hmm, that bookmarklet idea is good but it doesn't seem to do anything (must be because I'm using a mac......)
I have tried using googlemaps to create routes before but have found it deeply frustrating, the same for bikeroutetoaster.
I don't believe that, tested in firefox & chrome
instructions: winthefight.org/cuegle/
Frustrating? It is simplicity itself, easily the fastest way to create a route.
I've got it working now, so if I open your mental route from yesterday and click the button I've created on my toolbar I get a window with a red border, then a STEP 1: details of various turns etc and a STEP 2: where I can create the contents to paste into a file and copy into my garmin etc.
I guess I choose the 'Garmin File Parameters' section, click the 'Generate Garmin Output' and then paste it into a file, MyRoute.tcx
I can do that, still struggling with google maps, it seems to get really confused when I double back on myself. I'll persevere though, I guess it'd be much easier with a mouse and not a laptop track pad!
Jim, the best way with google maps is to create a template, a route with a start and finish and a couple of points to form e.g. a simple triangle
Save that as a bookmark, and use that to modify for future routes. I don't think it is getting confused, I think it is confusing you ;-) It's only doing what you ask.
There are a few glitches with the mapping data. The common one is it won't route down a minor road, and it insists on going the long way round, but these are rare.
If I'm doing a pucker job (e.g. our sportive), then I do a rough route in google, and then create the perfect on in bikehike, with the useful follow roads/freehand option so I can control it where there are any glitches with the underlying google data, which pretty much all sites use anyway.
OK Mike, quick question - when I get to Step 2: 'copy/paste into a text file' after clicking Generate Garmin Output - how do I then save that as a .tcx (as opposed to .txt)?
There's an option somewhere in Folder Options to 'Display file extensions' so you can see the full file name, then change it from .txt to .tcx
I've created an empty 'route.tcx' file to paste the data into each time
Yeah always opt to show file extensions, hiding is just a windows 'nicety' to save numpties from getting a little bit scared.
As Jim says
I've got a short route template now, it really doesn't like long lane though! (Keeps wanting me to go back via the b***** A50!!
Tick avoid highways on the options, and yes Long Lane is odd, there is one point on it that is the sweet spot. It's at the Warren Lane end of Ratcliffe Lane.
Thanks Mike, Jim - short test route successfully created - my epic commute to the office via Aden's school:
maps.google.co....037336&t=m&z=15
Mike - I see what you mean now by 'elastic' routes - much easier to work with than linear routes which never seem that easy to edit afterwards. Safely bookmarked in the 'cloud' too - another advantage. I'm a convert.
Paul you are the first, thank god someone's seen the light! I thank you, my cajoling has eventually paid off.
Well, this method gives me exactly what I need, but I did have to learn something new and it took me half an hour when I could have been watching the TV.... I can see why some people might be put off! ;-)
I'm getting there slowly...
Still getting tied in knots (the route is quite literally looping back on itself many times). Still not sure how you 'save' a route to come back to it later though, think I've missed something.
On the left there is a little link button, that has a URL you can bookmark (save) Don't use the URL in the address bar.
As for looping back, make you first route, the one you bookmark very circular as opposed to a corridor. e.g. start/finish in Beeston, a dragged point in derby, one in Loughborough and one in Grantham. Another tip is to start with the start and finish in very different places, you can easily drag it to the right place when you're nearly done.
I think you have to use that app regularly to generate a tiny url which you can then open in a new window - then you can compare routes or revert to an earlier one if better.
nah, tiny url is a recent feature, only seems to work on a fresh route, if you go back to an older route, you don't seem to get the tiny url.
Anyway, the long url is just as good and useable. You can drag and drop the link icon anyway. And posting the long url on here - it's just shortened by bunch anyhow.
No, google is driving me mental. Converted half my route for next weekend, got it generally right but after a certain point it won't let me move the route? It's as if it's run out of those white circle markers and won't let me edit it any further!!! Try again later I think
Yes there is a limit on points. But you gotta get as pedantic as me about your route before that's a problem. You get used to knowing how few you can get away with. Just keep them as far apart as possible, only use them when google can't guess the route you want.
What I tend to do is start and finish my routes well out from home. I know a good 30 mile radius like back of hand. This gives you more points.
It really is a very fast way to create a route. I do a new 100+ mile route every Friday night from scratch. I could not contemplate doing that by the linear method.
With this method I can put in the bits I know I want for definite, and play around with the rest.
And then sometimes I'm so keen, it's done a week in advance. Tonights masterpeice for next Saturday.
I can see it being a good way to draft the bones of a route very quickly, particularly if you're going a long way and aren't too fussed about the 'exact' rote you need to take.
More experimenting needed at this end I think, I think you can fairly easily create a route from an existing track or from an existing route file from mapmyride/bikehike/etc anyway so that'll keep me going for a few weeks :-)
But I am very bothered about the EXACT route.
But yes tcx is easily done be a whole load of other websites. I'm just on my soapbox.
So can the likes of bike hike etc automatically create course points or does that require the root to be in googlemaps and then using the above mentioned GMapToTCX app/link?
You can add course points in bike hike and they are fully editable. Try dif methods Jim until you find the one that suits you.
No Jim, the only automatic creation of CPs I've found is sourced from google driving directions. Though maybe other sites use a mashup based on that. Keep us posted!
I will. Bikeroutetoaster creates them automatically if you draw a route manually with it (it uses Google driving directions) but it doesn't add them if you upload a route. Will keep experimenting.
I had a flight navigation computer in my glider which did a similar thing to a Garmin Edge 800 (but in 3D), but that was far easier to plan routes for, I guess there aren't many roundabouts, one way systems and deadends in the sky though :-)
Ohhhh, it's been dispatched!!
If it doesn't get delivered then I am definitely not buying one!
Hopefully it won't get 'lost on route'!
Found a good description of the different file types etc here:
And (brief) instructions on how to install free OSM maps (Like Charlie has on his), could be worth a punt Paul?!
Will have a look when I get home! Btw, I tried that site for routing but it wasn't very stable.
I'm using free open source maps on a Garmin Dakota 20 and they work perfectly fine....even on those really skanky Irish roads!
Got them from here:
talkytoaster.info/ukmaps.htm
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BIG topic!
First compulsory reading is Rainmaker's blog
www.dcrainmaker...first-look.html
Mapping
A subject in itself, that doesn't affect the rest of Garmin critique.
General
All maps have 3 viewing options:
1. Track up - birds eye orientated in direction of travel
2. North up - birds eye
3. Automotive - 3D Sat Nav style
Option 3 is always rendered in the same way, whatever the map, simple line drawing. Very fast rendering, easiest from a 'I don't care about surroundings, just navigate' perspective, the blinkers method.
Option 1&2 render depending on the map, City Navigator renders as simple line drawing and is very fast to render. OS is OS with big memory demands and is consequently slower. The birds eye view is best when you want to know more info about your surroundings. (surroundings method) This applies to both OS and City Nav, though obviously the detail and hence info is greater with OS.
OS Option
Pros: Advanced Off-road ability, proper feel for 'the place' and surroundings, you're less on a route and more in your surroundings.
Cons: Slower to render the maps, even with the latest firmware that improves it vastly. Biggest con for OS is that you don't get a simple birds eye option. Expensive, only UK coverage.
In summary essential for proper off roading, otherwise only good if you are a map head.
City Navigator.
unmetalled tracks are shown reliably, ie if there is a track it is very likely visible and distinguishable from the metalled variety.
Pros: Always fast to render, greater coverage ie All Europe, less costly anyway, navigation simplicity.
Cons: Limited off road abilities - tracks only, less sense of place
In summary, fast and easy to use, best for accurate no fuss navigation, when you are less bothered about your surroundings and are only really interested in tarmac.
mikew13:44 Sun 22 Jan